[9:26
AM] Mr. Blue:
The
Roman Empire, post Roman Empire, seems like a weird place.
Buncha
Swedes showed up and decided to run everything?
This
is talking about how this guy both tried to allow Roman Imperial
lifestyles to continue while also allowing his barbarian brethren to
be... barbarians
Musta
been a weird time.
[9:29
AM]
Just
like the SCA
"Just
mash it all together, stop worrying about authenticity, and have fun
with it."
[9:30
AM] Mr. Blue:
I
have it pictured as normal civilized Rome in the cities, and just
absolute barbarism in rural areas.
[9:31
AM]
Of
course "Barbarian" was a Greek concept. It was an ethnocentric slur for anyone who didn't speak their language and comply with their culture and so were clearly inferior. But some of those
barbarian cultures were very sophisticated.
Ironically, Roman barbarians stole the idea from the Greeks.
[9:31
AM] Mr. Brown:
It
was probably better right outside the Roman cities than further out.
[9:32
AM]
And
better than deep inside. Same as cities now.
[9:35
AM] Mr. Blue:
I
wonder what the demographics looked like. How many Germanic speakers
vs. Latin speakers were there?
Probably
more Latin speakers... This or another article says there was minimal
influence of Germanic languages into Italian.
Although
there are still actual German speakers in Italy in Tyrol.
[9:39
AM]
Classic Latin speakers would have kept such barbaric influences out to keep it pure.
Which is why it became a lingua franca - static, structured, reliable, and the educated knew it all over the known world.
It is also why there is (essentially) no one left who uses it - stagnant, archaic, and useless to to the vast majority of the world.
Hell...Classic Latin couldn't even handle coming up a term for a universal language when the time came...
"Lingua Franca" means "Language of the Franks (French)"
Italian
- and all the other Romance languages - derives from vulgate
Latin...the organic adaptable evolving stuff the vast majority of plebeians and lower
spoke. Most Romans didn't speak - and certainly couldn't read, write, or conjugate - what we call Classical Latin. 10% of "Romans" maybe?
I
was going to make a photo point about the SCA mix of Nobles vs
Barbarians.
But
for some reason the Elizabethans aren't blocked by our firewall, but
every Scadian barbarian is.
But...I've
seen the summit of Renaissance culture and dress at the same dance as
people in rough cut furs and hides often enough.
"You
dance divinely, Ogg! I'm truly enjoying your company.
Mind you, I'm afraid I'll have to have you apprehended and sold
tomorrow morning."
"Only
if my horde doesn't sack and burn the city before dawn, countess."
“DO
come and carry me off if they do, chief!”
“Promise
me you'll kick and scream?”
“With
pleasure!”
(merry
laughter)
[9:45
AM] Mr. Brown:
Somebody
should make a King Arthur film in the proper time period.
None
of the shiny amour.
[9:47
AM]
"Shiny
Amour - A Tale of Guinevere and Lancelot"
[9:47
AM] Mr. Brown:
Hah
[9:46
AM] Mr. Blue:
How
about a Ostrogothic kingdom period film?
I
can't think of any of those.
King
Arthur is
a legendary British leader
who, according to medieval histories and romances,
led the defence of Britain against Saxon invaders
in the late 5th and early 6th centuries AD.
He
didn't do a very good job.
[9:50
AM] Mr. Brown:
That's
because he is more than one person in some theories.
As
the story progressed through time they kept adding things from
multiple different leaders.
Kinda
like what happened to Robin
[9:52
AM] Mr. McGreen:
Brave
Sir Robin ran away
[9:52
AM]
Hood
[9:52
AM] Mr. Blue:
*Hode
[9:52
AM] Mr. McGreen:
Robbin'
in the Hood
[9:53
AM]
Even
if there was AN Arthur...or a few Arthurs. How long did they
really last?
[9:53
AM] Mr. McGreen:
Ripe
old age of 30
[9:53
AM] Mr. Brown:
For
as long as an axe didn't hit him.
[9:53
AM]
"He
defended against and defeated some Saxons!”
"And
then died of dysentery at age 37 after 4 years of success..."
"But
he was AWESOME til then."
[9:53
AM] Mr. Blue:
It
says he supposedly conquered Iceland too?
[9:53
AM]
Depending
on what source you read, he conquered all of Europe
I
rather think there was an original Arthur, and he did well.
And
then everything he did started getting muddy after he'd been dead a
while.
Robin
Hood too.
In
his case, more than one.
Robin
Hood - the first hero to follow the Marvel superhero reboot scheme.
[9:56
AM] Mr. Brown:
Yep
[9:56
AM]
Only
7 different identities and 5 reboots since inception...in the Middle
Ages alone.
[9:56
AM] Mr. McGreen:
Was
the Russell Crowe Robin Hood accurate to his life?
The
(I think) newest incarnation
[9:57
AM] Mr. Brown:
Not
accurate at all
[9:57
AM] Mr. McGreen:
Oh
wait. You said an actual Robin Hood may not have existed.
[9:57
AM] Mr. Blue:
There
were a few Robyn Hodes
I
think I read that Robyn Hode might've been like that era's "John
Doe" to refer to nameless bandits.
[9:58
AM] Mr. Brown:
Funny
thing is, there was a Sheriff of Nottingham.
[9:58
AM]
That's
not funny at all. There've been hundreds of Sheriffs of Nottingham.
Up to and including this one:
http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/about-the-council/councillors-and-leadership/the-sheriff-of-nottingham/
[9:58
AM] Mr. Blue:
But
yeah, in a few-hundred year period, I'm sure there were some dudes
who robbed rich people and gave that money to the poor.
[9:59
AM] Mr. Brown:
I
don't think he ever gave money to the poor.
That
was a made up trait.
[10:00
AM] Mr. Blue:
Well...
He was poor... So if he gave it to himself or to his band of poor
bandits...
[10:02
AM]
Dunno...you
could subsist pretty high in Sherwood on illegal game.
There
wasn't much of anything to buy.
They might
as well pass any coin or unneeded booty around.
"And
then did goode Robyn and his men looke wistfully upon the Bishope's
chest of
silver pennies in askance, and Robyn said 'what shud we do
with this trasch?'."
“'Aye',
spake Little John, 'if we turn aught but small copper in towne yon sheriff
will knowe it and brande the arses of the shoppekeeps.'"
"'Dumpe
it at the kirk for the poore?' put Will Scarlet. 'And mayhaps the
vicar wille say a masse for our souls efter we're took and hung'."
"And all that mighty band did cheer."
[10:08
AM] Mr. Blue:
It
musta been crazy easy to be a thief back then.
No
forensics or cameras.
The
fear of fire & brimstone was probably a greater deterrent than
actual laws and punishment.
[10:09
AM] Mr. Brown:
Yep,
somebody would have to identify you.
[10:09 AM]
Goes both ways - you could be accused of anything too.
[10:10
AM] Mr. Blue:
Of
course there just weren't many people around back then
[10:10
AM]
LOL
[10:11
AM] Mr. Blue:
I
think the population of all of England around 1066 was like, a
million?
[10:11
AM]
Not
compared to now, but the classic tale is at the peak of the high
Middle Ages...it was a pretty good time
1066?!?!
Try
the 1190s
[10:12
AM] Mr. Blue:
Just saying there weren't that many then. I
thought Robin was in the 1300s
[10:12
AM]
King
John
Ruled
illegitimately from 1191 til crowned in 1199 and ruled til 1216.
So
Robin Hood - the classic depicted foe of John and loyalist to Richard
– fit right in the 90s.
[10:13
AM] Mr. Blue:
Ahh,
that's right.
I'm
thinking of when he was starting to be written about, which was in
the 1400s
"A
Gest of Robyn Hode"
[10:19
AM] Mr. Brown:
They
never portray royalty in movies as they looked in films either, like the inbred
ones.
[10:26
AM] Mr. Blue:
Some
do
Kingdom
of Heaven shows Baldwin as a disgusting leper.
[10:27
AM]
That
was makeup?
:P
[10:27
AM] Mr. Blue:
But
in Arthurian times they wouldn't have had big stone castles and fancy
dress.
It
probably woulda been more like mud & wood huts and lots of drab
clothing.
Even
the Saxon lords opted for simple dwellings. Even though by that time
there were bigger places, they just culturally preferred mud and wood
[10:28
AM] Mr. Brown:
They
probably had mansion-style wood huts
With
large wooden walls to keep people out. LOL
[10:31
AM] Mr. Blue:
“The Palace”
[10:33
AM]
Yup, there's your "mansion style", Mr. Brown.
The
description in Ivanhoe was fairly good that way:
Talked
about a Saxon lord who retained his position. Manor was just a
drafty arrangement of walls. No one considered it odd...it's
just what they would build.
[10:34
AM] Mr. Blue:
If
they were still pagans...and I'm not sure if they were or not..they
probably woulda put a higher emphasis on earthy materials.
They
probably just had different views of technology. Probably opted to
put more time and effort into other stuff.. maybe weapons, farming
tools, boats, etc.
A
technique Christians used to convert pagans in the north was to cut
down their "sacred groves" and - when they weren't struck
down immediately by the gods - used that as proof that their gods
were false
[10:42
AM]
Somehow,
pillaging and burning churches and killing the clergy and not being
struck down by the Christian God didn't light any mental lamps on
either side.
[10:42
AM] Mr. Blue:
Heheh
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